Neotropical Butterflies

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 Post subject: Heraclides thoas (Papilio thoas)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:42 am
Posts: 90
This individual was found in my adeniums this afternoon. I think it is Heraclides thoas but it is possibly H. cresphontes, how does one tell the difference ?


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Last edited by David Clulow on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total
 
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 Post subject: Re: Heraclides thoas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 229
Location: Langnau im Emmental, Switzerland
There are some criterias, however, I am not 100% sure about these ones. There are also some conflicting "results" using these criterias. Geographical range: Usually Cresphontes is more in the north and Thoas in the South. But I can't tell you the exact border. According to funet Cresphontes is found in Colombia as the fare southest location, whereas for Thoas Mexico is the fare northest range, but there are certainly overlapping areas. Cresphontes has usually 3 spot on the outer edge of the forewing, whereas Thoas has 4 spots. But sometimes you have 3 1/2 spots, so is it now 3 OR 4 spots?? Sometimes tricky since this last spot might be very small in size. According to Glassberg there is a straight line between the spots on the ventral side of the forewing. In Cresphontes you should not be able to get this line. But look at yours: There is no line. So what about this criteria? I can't judge this if it is a general rule. The same author stated that in Thoas the edge of some or one spots on the forewing are more flattened whereas in Cresphontes this spot is more pointed. So looking at yours I also think it is Heraclides thoas. But with all these criterias I mentioned in general you might be safe, however, in some specimes you will have some conflicts.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Heraclides thoas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:42 am
Posts: 90
Adam Cotton says in the light of DNA research in 2004 Heraclides has now been submeerged in to Papilio; here is his posting on the LEPS group:

"PS. David Clulow asked about Heraclides thoas. As far as DNA shows,
Heraclides and many other such genus names aren't really worth more than
species group or at most subgenus within genus Papilio (see Zakharov et al.,
2004 for a tree of genus Papilio sensu lato). Splitting small groups into
separate genera only serves to hide the innate relationships between species
groups that should be reflected in the genus name. This useful information
is hidden from the end users of names (non taxonomists), who when faced with
names like Pterourus, Heraclides, Achillides, Menelaides, Princeps, Druryia,
Chilasa
, etc etc have no idea that they are all closely related and should
really all be treated within genus Papilio."


Last edited by David Clulow on Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total

 
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 Post subject: Re: Heraclides thoas (Papilio thoas)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 229
Location: Langnau im Emmental, Switzerland
Interesting information, thanks! The question arises which resource is for neotropical lepidoptera the most reliable one?? In Europe we have www.faunaeur.org as accepted resource for taxonomy. Does anybody has more info abut such sources? Tree of life, EOL, Boldsystem?
Cheers Dominik


 
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